Hi all!

Yes, it's been awhile.

I've been rethinking the Lamentation of Despairs. It seems useful to me now, at least in a medium-to-high magic list that can burn through your opponent's scrolls and dice. Hero-level Vampires (Ld7) and Daemon Heralds (Ld8) seem particularly susceptible to it. If they fail a leadership check, you have a 2/3 chance of outright killing models that are otherwise very hard targets. This is no sure thing, of course, but I'm thinking it's worth 25 points for a non-negligible chance to kill that Vampire with the Helm of Commandment or the Nurgle Herald in the Nurgle Bunker Unit of Doom. Thoughts?

Well, I've learned quickly how powerful bound spells really are to a strong magic build. The problem I see would be that our lore isn't tough enough to draw out dispel dice and scrolls. A bound spell works in two ways. 1) The opponent is afraid of it and knows it's there so will save dispel dice and scrolls for it, which forces him to let more actual castings through. Or 2) The magic lore you employ is strong enough to pull out all of the enemy's dispels leaving you room to use the bound spell.

The problem here is that the Lamentations is One Use Only. Or, at least I think it is, my book isn't here at the moment.

This means that once your opponent knows it's there he won't need to be afraid of it, cause it will be gone. Alternatively, Is our magic strong enough to pull out dispels thoroughly enough to ensure that the Spite gets through. For this to happen, treesinging becomes the critical spell. Even a Beast Weaver alone won't have what it takes, but will certainly be the best place to start.

Possibly something like this.... Damn I wish I had my book here.

Spell Weaver, Lvl4, Ranu's, powerstone, two scrolls.
Spell singer, Lvl2, Calaingor's Stave (sp?), powerstone.
Spell singer, Lvl2, Lamentations.
Treeman, for the bound spell.

I haven't spent much time around tourneys so I can't comment if forest will be around enough to make this work. I thought that the general consensus here was that Treesinging was too situational, that's why most tourney lists don't feature heavy magic. At my local tourneys I've seen it go both ways.

One thing that jumps out at me is that a Terradon heavy Lizard list, which would normally be a bane to us, would be terrified of this list since flying in and out of woods is there biggest advantage. Of course I don't know if the Lamentations can be counted on against a T4 Slann, but it would be great if it did. Additionally its a nearly certain kill for the Skink Priest on the Engine. Taking Burning Alignment out of the game could be huge.

Looking again at that Character build it seems like it will eat up points quickly. Could be possible at 2250, but probably unachievable at 2000. It could be streamlined if you had to, I don't think VC and Daemons are really known for strong magic _defense_. The Standard of Sundering probably won't be an issue since they'll go after Beasts Lore, but in this build Beast is mostly smoke and mirrors.

Oh! And Mach, it's good to have you back. I don't mind saying, I was getting a little worried.

I have had extreme tournament success with a heavy-magic character loadout. My characters look something like this:

Lvl 4 Spellweaver with Glamourweave Kindred
AoN, SoCM, Ranu's, Powerstone
Mounted on Elven Steed

Lvl 2 Spellsinger w/2 Dispel Scrolls

Lvl 2 Spellsinger w/Dispel Scroll, Calaingor's Stave

Alter w/standard kit, HotH, HoDA

The level 4, of course, goes for Beasts. Beasts has three spells that can be game-changing: Beast Cowers, Wolf Hunts, and Bear's Anger. Beast Cowers WILL draw dispel scrolls . . . its battlefield-wide range is awesome and the fact that it will cripple your opponent's most valuable shock units (by keeping them from moving) is rarely something your opponent wants to risk dice on. Wolf Hunts and Bear's Anger (on the Alter, naturally) are more frightening once you've closed with the enemy, but no one wants to deal with eight attacks from your WS7 S6 Alter Noble, just like no one wants to receive a flank charge from Wild Riders. Crow's Feast is almost always at least useful, mostly against your opponent's light troops, and Hunter's Spear can be deadly against an enemy with cavalry. Oxen Stands is the only spell that is somewhat meh, and even that can be situationally very nice (If you've never rallied a fleeing Wild Rider unit and Wolf Huntsed it into the enemy that broke it the previous turn, you haven't really lived).

Treesinging is very useful at the tournament level, if only because chances are you will have three scenarios that are classified as "pitched battle" and give you your free wood. Things aren't fantastic if you don't have a useful stand of trees on the battlefield (and I find that situation to be rare) but even then Call of the Hunt and Ariel's Blessing are both solid spells. Twilight Host and Hidden Path can be useful against the right enemies (those subject to psychology and those with non-magical shooting, respectively). Fury of the Forest isn't fantastic but at least it doesn't require line of sight; if your opponent is running light units such as Shades or fast cavalry this spell can draw some dice or a scroll as well.

All this to say that I haven't found burning through my opponent's scrolls and dice to be much of a problem with the character loadout I described above. My real question is if its worth the 25 points for a spell that has a worse than 50% chance of working in most of the situations you'd want to use it (although using it on the Ld4 Vargulf has its appeal).

Is the Lamentations a Ld test? I was almost certain it was a Toughness test. My Army Book, and my army as well, has been at my friends house where there are great resources for painting and modeling as well as a game table. This is making this thread hard to contribute to.

This is interesting:



Are you still using this as a "lock down" character. I remember the Meadow Glade Patrol army from a while ago. You had seemed very excited about the potential for this character. Has it been a consistent performer for you?

Based on the character build you've shown I'd say that the Lamentations would fit well with your Calaingor mage, in place of her Scroll. 3 scrolls is nice and comfortable, but I think its far from mandatory. As far as the probability of the Spite, the chances are that it won't do what you want it to do, but for sacrifice of a third scroll it would be huge when it did, at very little cost to the synergy of your army.

Yes.



Indeed, she has worked out very well. I run her with the Wild Riders with the War Banner. She can lock down most enemy characters and provides me with punch in the magic phase, which I find extremely helpful given the current metagame.

I'm going to try out the Lamentations and see how it does. I may switch my Spellweaver's Power Stone to a Dispel Scroll, though, rather than running with only two Dispel Scrolls.

Problem with the mounted Spellweaver is that if you put him in a unit of Wild Riders it makes them more of a target for shooting. I don't know how many you run but lose a few WR's and the Spellweaver can be targeted. Plus a lot of units don't have champs to challange so it limits the flexability of the WR unit as attack can be put on your 400pts mage.

Second; Besides the Beast magic, which is good, the Wood elves lore isn't that great. Your paying allot for magic which is unreliable. Ring of Hotek is all the rage these days as well as winds of magic senerios. Double points for mages and all. Puppet sucks too with all the Gateway for the Win armies these days.

High magic WE's can work but I like spreading my points out. I think spamming treesinging is the best use of magic.

Currently I'm re-thinking the machine gun Lord. All the DE and HE running aroung these days. I know after playing WE for about 5 years that changing it up is the way to go. You get bored. I have played Large EG unit supported army. Almost all mounted army. Mixed.

I still havn't played 2 Trees or a Dragon army yet.(I like comp) or all Forest spirits.