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 Post subject: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:01 am 
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Lord of the Battle Glade, Sword of Loren

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 277
Do you guys think it's worth it to run a unit of Waywatchers instead of two Great Eagles? I've always thought Eagles were the better buy both due to cost and versatility, but recent experiences suggest that Waywatchers may be a better deep strike option (to take out war machines, etc.) and might give me another resource against the suddenly ubiquitous Dragon Rider of Doom (tm).

What do you guys think? Are Waywatchers worth it?

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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:23 am 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:49 am
Posts: 352
Location: Got an 8:30 rez at Dorsia... great sea urchin ceviche!
Strength 3 KB is the bane of Dreadlords, but Wardancers can do that too and will have more utility for the rest of the field and against more opponents. Of course Waywatchers are a turn 1 threat and few things can really get inside the enemy's head than threatening Lethal Shot.

Waywatchers are also the only scouts left with special deployment. This gives so much versatility to savvy generals. I'd actually have to disagree. WW have at least as much versatility as Eagles. Maybe more. Maybe.

Oh! Skirmishers who can flee? Yes, please!

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"I'm on the verge of tears as we arrive at Espace since I'm positive we won't have a decent table. But we do.
Relief washes over me in an awesome wave."

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Dance like the shadows of Loec.


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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:05 pm 
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Lord of the Battle Glade, Sword of Loren

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 277
I'm going to try to fit Waywatchers into my next tournament list. We'll see how they do!

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Lord Aewyn Machiara
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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:57 pm 
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The Poplar Sentinel

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:12 am
Posts: 211
Location: Where the sun shines and people laugh
While waywatchers and eagles have some similar roles (march interdiction, war machine hunting), there are other things to have in mind:

Eagles are a low risk, (usually) low reward unit, and extremely tactical. By themselves, they do little: march interdict and diversion, perhaps a warmachine, a wizard if your opponent is foolish enough to allow a charge...
They alter your opponents movements, physically: if there's an eagle, they cannot go right, and have to go left even if it is a worse decision.

Waywatchers are a high risk, high reward unit, and compared to the watch that is the eagle, they're the sledgehammer.
IF things go well, they can earn huge points (killing a dragon rider with 6 watchers is not easy but far from impossible: all six hit, 2 hit the rider, and if one of them is a six...). Of course, if things don't, or you're playing ogres...
The watchers limit your opponents psychologicaly. Just for being there, characters are more or less forced to stay in units. What if they get the dragon rider? or those knights who suffer 2 wounds and are reduced to three, with all that means? is it sensible to deploy that stone thrower close to the wood?
Waywatchers may or may not do something. But just being there makes most opponents uneasy. They're a threat on another level.

In short, I'd recommend to try them. And once you do, let us know your impressions.

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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Asrai
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:42 pm
Posts: 39
I've never found the big chickens to be much use, you've got to get them over to where you need it/them, usually 2 turns and hope it doesn't get shot up on the way.
Waywatchers can be where they're needed from the off, with a touch of luck, they pop out of cover, lose off a few arrows and immediately become the focus of an irrate/rattled opponent, who devotes resources to killing them, rather than the rest of the army, as it bears down upon him, possibly meaning an Alter lives long enough to lose a HoD, or manages to charge a warmachine.
At 24 points a pop, they're dear, so often it's a case of not so much Eagle or Waywatchers, but not enough points for either after the Characters, Core & Specials are picked.


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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:37 am 
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Lord of the Battle Glade, Sword of Loren

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 277
I fielded a list with a unit of six Waywatchers against Brettonians. They did ridiculously well, kill three (!!) Peg Knights with killing blow on the first turn, killing the last Peg Knight with killing blow on a S&S in his turn, and then killing two grail knights on my next turn. Subsequently they ran from a charge and failed to rally, but they did do an excellent job.

I'll keep you updated.

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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:55 am 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:56 am
Posts: 47
Right now I am having to make the Eagle-v-Watchers choice. Im playing 850 of my WE V 800 points of WoC in a map campaign. Its a vital piece of territory that will let him invade any coastal area on the island.
He's trashed me twice most severely at 2k in non campaign play.
4 spawn- these little ratbags roam around behind the lines stopping me from taking fast movers to march block behind the main body. And he rolls at least 5 for attacks.
3x11 warriors
3x5 knights
fairly fast and unrelenting

His campaign army is all cavalry marauders and knights. Im expecting 2 units of knights and marauders and spawn.
So an eagle for its diversionary ability or WW to actually kill some. I have wardancers so I am going towards the eagle at the moment. I think to take advantage of an eagle you need some backup. WW can do things by themselves and are a worry for the potential damage they can do. Eagles look a lot more harmless untill you hold important things up and then smash with something else.

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WE Played:27 W:15 D:3 L:9....I blame Chaos and DoW dragons..


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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:12 pm 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:18 pm
Posts: 16
I'd personally go for the Eagles, myself. From what I know, small cavalry armies work best when they can move pretty much freely, charging flanks and generally helping to keep the Wood Elf population low.
Great Eagles don't tend to last long (I think I remember a haiku in the Halls of Loec which says take my 50 points, just don't charge my Elves or something similar), but even a turn of disruption early on can allow you to deal with the Spawn, or pepper the Knights and Warriors with arrows. Who knows, maybe they'll fight on for Athel Loren and survive a second combat phase?
As long as you continue to use Forests like shields from anything in spiky armour charging you, that extra turn thanks to the Turkey-at-Christmas (they're going to die) attitude with the Eagles might help more. Plus, the Eagles can move much further than Waywatchers, so if you change your mind about what needs to happen, they might be able to get in a position to help.

Unless you've already played the game? If so, tell us what you choose, and how it went. Gracias.

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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:56 am
Posts: 47
The game is on Sunday with a follow on game straight after it against someone else. I will try a similar list for both games. Im not sure who I will be facing the second game but I will try an eagle in both. I think the eagle is a better bet for an all comers list than way watchers certainly in our campaign. Im really starting to think about the army as a whole more than "whats better an XXXunit or an XXXunit" I think with Woodies (and probably other armies too) it really depends on what else you have in there.
I'll let you know how it went.

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WE Played:27 W:15 D:3 L:9....I blame Chaos and DoW dragons..


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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:46 am 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:56 am
Posts: 47
Heres the list I am planning on running.

Noble, steed, LA,Shd,Spr Helm of the Hunt, Hail of DOOOOOM! Arrow. (Sometimes known as the Hail of Doh! Arrow.)

Glade Guard x 10 (Lords Bowman to fill points)
Glade Riders x5 musician
Glade Riders x5 musician First time to try two GR in one army before. Hoping the loss of fire power is not too bad.
Wardancers x7
Wardancers x8
GE

Total about 850

To keep it on track with the OP I have used Way Watchers before with some success. They can kill one or two knights a turn but so far that hasnt been quick enough. And for killing warriors they arent even close to killing them fast enough. (I know it sounds a bit like I am expecting them to win the game alone but Im not honestly..well maybe) The opponents I am facing have very high armour saves and so WW are a useful choice. I really dont think they are much good against lower armoured armies. The choice I have made is to combine the Wardancers and the Great Eagle. I think this is a better choice, for me anyway (we shall see though :) ) as it saves points in a low point game and gives the chance of breaking them in combat which the Way Watchers cant do. Also unlikely to panic them unless you have a lot. (two units of 10 Way Watchers will cause all sorts of panic and thats just in the deployment phase) But a normal unit of say 6 probably wont.

Getting the Wardancers into combat will be a little tough but with the eagle march blocking it should be easier.
Waywatchers will have an easier time shooting things and have a large area of influence on the table.
I would be interested to know if anyone has any good combinations for Way Watchers, what units really complement them? Off the top of my head I'm thinking Great Eagle for march blocking. hehe

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WE Played:27 W:15 D:3 L:9....I blame Chaos and DoW dragons..


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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:38 am 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:56 am
Posts: 47
So to cut a long story short, I won convincingly. Pretty sure it was a massacre though we didn't bother counting.
Eagle blocked, Glade riders ran all over the place taking out the marauder cav, and march blocking, wardancers did more threatening than anything but did keep a unit of knights occupied for a while. I didn't have the spawn to worry about and just shot at the marauder cav. For WE I think they need the throwing axes or spears as my next game I got splattered by them.
I didn't need way watchers and Im not sure how useful they would have been in this game certainly compared with the Great Eagle and wardancers.

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WE Played:27 W:15 D:3 L:9....I blame Chaos and DoW dragons..


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 Post subject: Re: Waywatchers v. Great Eagles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:27 pm 
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Asrai

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:02 am
Posts: 25
I usually run a Treeman and an Eagle for my rares. At my last GT I brought Waywatchers and could not scout them in one game and had their L.o.S reduced to 12" in another game. They didn't do much for me. March blocking turn 1 is great if you can pull it off (terrain). Eagles work no matter what. I use mine for redirection. If you have a Doomsday unit bearing down on you....Eagle flys out to save the day. Flank said unit. It works great on undead as they can't be danced past. (Don't forget to hide the eagle before use behind one of your units so not to be shot or magic'd.)

Stories of lucky shots are great and all but with 5 shots the stats are not on your side. If you already have lots of gladeriders who can do what eagles can plus shoot the waywatchers could add flexability.


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