So I'm having trouble with dealing with the new dark elves magic phase.

I tend to face a lv l 4 aided by a lvl 2. The lvl 4 carries the black staff, which gives her power of darkness spell as a bound 4+ and the lvl 2 has the sacraficial dagger.

With 8 dice at the begging and 3 power of darkness spells my opponent can throw 9 spells in a turn (he also uses the cloak of shadows on his assassin), and I can maybe dispel 2 or 3 of them.

Mage hunting is too unreliable way to counter his mages, because he doesn't give any chances for it. The lvl 4 is sometimes on a dragon, which means that way watchers could be usefull, but the getting the KB is not gona happen often and he knows it.

Wand of the Wychelm might be the best investment, but that means that
A) I will have to take a lvl 4 mage
B) The lvl 4 is going to play quite a defensive role.

So does anyone have any good ideas, or am I just powerless against the druchii magic? Chillwind and word of pain makes my archers next to useless.

Well, don't pretned that you can build a magic defense and an offense at the same time. Personally, I don't expect WEs to ever produce an offensive magic phase.

So what does that tell you? That you don't need a lvl 4 and a lvl 2, you need a lvl 3 and a lvl 1, that saves you some points right there. I think the WotWE is a quality item to take against 2 bound spells, giving you the chance to stop them with one die each. That leaves you 3 dice and as much as 3 scrolls. Three dice should reliably stop the next casting of PoD, no one is going to throw mor than 2 dice at a PoD since the odds are you'll end up loosing dice in the end. Save you scrolls at that point for the spells that you have to stop and be prepared to let maybe one spell through each turn. I know that sucks for a character investment, but think about it this way: a Lvl 3 on an Eagle is great points denial.

What are you using for mage hunting? I would suggest If you go with the two mages to fill you remaining character slots with Alters. One standard with Helm and Arrow, and the second with the Amber Pendant, That way you have a weapon against ASF Black Guard. Both can be good mage hunters because of their small bases. They can "thread the needle" in ways that WWs, GRs and WHs can't. I like to think of them like Bishops in chess.

If you do this, I'd think that some WHs would still be a good investment, not only to confuse your opponent by giving him multiple mage hunting threats to plan for, but to screen you Alters so they can advance aggressively without exposing themselves to missle fire and LoS damage spells.

Also, I think that it's worth it to consider charging his Dragon mage with WHs. Sure, with 6 attacks and Hatred his Dragon could wipe you all out, but not before you get all six st 4 attacks against his mage. It could be worth it.

I like the Idea of WWs as well. 7 of them should scare him enough to hide from them, and if he has the Black Staff, then he doesn't have the familiar, meaning he'll suffer if he hides from LoS. And you might be able to use them to confuse him and steal a charge with your WHs or even an Alter.

I know that sounds a lot like a tailored list, but I think these tactics could translate easily to other armies. Both the two new brands of Chaos and VC have potent magic phases, so the Defense mages would be worth it. And Alters are the most versitile characters we have so you're not really sacrificing there either. Warhawks aren't always the best units, but they help your movement phase and will help disguise your tactics a little as well. They're good for crossfire and denying flee reactions as well.

Good point about the warhawks. Really like the idea.

I've been thinking around a list that uses 10 waywatchers to tackle chaos knights. Getting the charge with warhawk riders should not prove impossible, since everybody seems to think that they are quite harmless.

I usually use glade riders, great eagles, waywatchers, wild riders and alters for mage hunting. Wild riders and alters seem to be the only ones who can kill chaos mages reliably.

I know this thread might sound like whinning, but I try to minimise it. I play dark elves myself, and love to acctually have a magic phase.

With wood elves I have a mage build that allows aggressive and defenssive play style. It includes a lvl 4 on great eagle with ranu's heartstone and 2 scrolls + a power stone or ward save and a lvl 2 with cal staff and a scroll. A treeman also helps bit. This is just not enough against the dark elf magic phase. My experience against daemons is very limited, so I can't really say is their magic phase a lot better, but if it is I'm in for a world of hurt.

But do you have what it takes to stop PoD?

The black Staff and the Sac Dag are nasty. Both give you the chance to cast PoD for next to nothing. But if you can stop the BS with the Wand and force him to throw dice to get the PoD, you've won your first major battle. His Lvl 4 will have to throw 2 dice at PoD. One die isn't reliable and with three he might only generate 2, meaning he's lost one die for his troubles. So with the Wand you can "hopefully" count on one die a piece for his bound spells and three to stop his Lvl 4. Deny his Lvl 4 PoD every turn and you've cut his magic phase by a third. You'll have to let his Lvl 2 have it each turn because the Sac Dag is just too reliable for it, but that leaves you three scrolls to deal with him. That leaves you with the age old question of what spells to stop and what to let through. But you'll have to figure that out each game.

Drop the Treeman for one unit of 4 Treekin and jam 'em down the throat of whatever's protecting his Lvl 2. Kill the Lvl 2 at all costs. Be ruthless. If you already have 4 Treekin, get more anyway. For all of they're strength, DE have almost nothing that can deal with Treekin. A Treeman isn't a killing machine, but 4 Treekin will smash through whatever they hit. If he tries to redirect them, consentrate fire on it, HoDA would be best. If your WWs and Warhawks are doing their job containing his Dragon, than your TK should cause real havoc in his advance.

I like two units of Treekin, I've faced them twice already with my sorceress heavy DEs and it was really hard to deal with.

No my usual magic build is not able to stop PoD. That's why I need your help

The lvl 2 is usually in a warrior unit with a nobel (sometimes an assassin) being as a bodyguard. If the lvl 4 is not on a dragon she will most probably start the game in BG, but then join another unit, when his BG get to combat.

I think that I will have to use my dryads to block the lvl 2 line of sight and just charge into the fray with them. 2 units should be enough. Treekin might also be a good option, since it's true that dark elves have almost nothing that can deal with them, except maybe cold one knights and the hydra, but even those will melt away.

Thanks for so much good imput, I think it's Karma time!

Hydra in flank would be death to Treekin, or if he harrasses them with his breath weapon, you'll need Glade riders to take care of him. Make sure you give that job to them since the Hydra is a skirmisher and can manuever nimbly around the board. Be careful with you positioning so he can't march up to you and wipe the whole unit with his Breath weapon, expect to loose one each turn anyway.

I don't know if you have room for Rares after you WWs and if you take a Treeman, but if you can't take any eagles to divert CoKs, remember...

85 point scouts
Are skirmishers who can flee
And are also core.

CoKs are slow and cumbersome to manuever, it won't take much to take them out of the game for a turn or two.

and thanks again for the Karma.

Yeah, my new list (which needs yet to be tested) includes 10 waywatchers, 5 scouts, glade riders, warhwak riders and an eagle. Plenty of harasment me thinks. The waywatchers will be joined by a lvl 4 mage, a nobel and some wardancers thanks to the moonstone. I hope that the waywatchers will be able to take down knights of any race. At least the potential 10 KB arrows should scare anyone off.

Moonstone Wardancers could be great in this list, since he'll be having so much trouble dealing with you movement. Jumping across the board and coming from behind could shake him just enough to break him.

Yeah the point is that the waywatchers start inside the enemy deployment zone, and then my wardancers, noble and spellweaver jumps in to join them. If the waywatchers can't be deployed deep into the enemy zone they will jump on the first turn with the weaver and the noble, and then the weaver will get back to transport the wardancers.

Sounds quite silly, I know but it could work very well, at least once.

When will your next game be? I'm awfully curious to here how it goes.

I'm not sure. Probably after next weeks, cos I have 5 exams, and I really need to get through them all to get enough studying points. Otherwise I wont get money from the state

jumping through hoops for state funding is what higher education is all about.